| Summary: | [Hob2] Change actions in the 'Recipes' screen to: 'Build image' (primary action) and 'Build packages' (secondary action). | ||||||||||||||
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| Product: | [Build System, Metadata & Runtime] Hob | Reporter: | Giulia <giulia> | ||||||||||||
| Component: | hob | Assignee: | Jessica <jessica.zhang> | ||||||||||||
| Status: | VERIFIED OBSOLETE | QA Contact: | |||||||||||||
| Severity: | enhancement | ||||||||||||||
| Priority: | High | CC: | alexandru.damian, andreea.b.proca, belen.barros.pena, dongxiao.xu, giulia, jessica.zhang, jiajun.xu, josh, laurentiu.serban, poky.bs.watcher, poky.watcher, richard.purdie, sgw, shane.wang, song.liu, valentin.popa | ||||||||||||
| Version: | 1.2 | ||||||||||||||
| Target Milestone: | 1.3 M4 | ||||||||||||||
| Hardware: | x86 | ||||||||||||||
| OS: | Multiple | ||||||||||||||
| URL: | |||||||||||||||
| Whiteboard: | |||||||||||||||
| OS type for building Yocto: | --- | Type of Regression: | --- | ||||||||||||
| Verified: | Documentation change: | --- | |||||||||||||
| Attachments: |
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The arrows have been fixed, I will work on the 'Build image' button today. The patch was rejected. I'll just quote Dongxiao's reasons here: "Sorry, I think this design doesn't make sense. Thinking of this scenario, if a user clicks "Create your own image" in base image drop down list, and then clicks "View Recipes" to select some recipes, if we allow user to directly click "Build image" here, it is wrong since nothing has been set to PACKAGE_INSTALL variable and the image build will fail. Also it will confuse user that, they would think what they selected in the recipe page will be packed into the final image, however it isn't. Therefore I suggest removing the "build image" button in recipe selection page." Add Dongxiao to the CC list so that he will be notified if any discussion happens. What does the PACKAGE_INSTALL variable do? Why is it not set if you don't select a base image? The variable is not explained in the reference manual, searching for it on the Yocto website doesn't return any results :( Hob is almost like a wizard where some steps, like View Recipes, are optional. As a wizard, all steps must give you an option to move forward in the process of building an image. If we don't provide a 'Build' option in the Recipes screen, we are forcing people to go back in order to move forward. If we can build an image from the Image configuration screen, why can't we build an image from the Recipes screen? If, because the way poky works, it doesn't make sense to have a Build image action in the Recipes screen, we should have implemented the Recipes step as a dialog (like the Layers) and not as a screen in the primary Hob window. Which brings us full circle to the initial designs. I think we agreed it is reasonable to assume the vast majority of Hob users will select a base image as the starting point. We should be optimising the design for those people, and not for the minority who, while using Hob, will decide to create their own image. If this is an unsolvable issue, we should consider eliminating the 'create your own image' option for 1.2 and implement it in a future version, so that we have time to think about it and come up with a good, solid solution. Hi all, We need to solve this one, so I've taken the liberty to reopening it. I hope that's ok. Belen Changing status to NEEDINFO (In reply to comment #4) > What does the PACKAGE_INSTALL variable do? Why is it not set if you don't > select a base image? The variable is not explained in the reference manual, > searching for it on the Yocto website doesn't return any results :( PACKAGE_INSTALL is a variable that indicate which package will be installed into the final image. Select a machine means two things: 1) Select a bunch of recipes to build. 2) Select part of the generated packages and install them into the final image. Those selected packages are values of PACKAGE_INSTALL > > Hob is almost like a wizard where some steps, like View Recipes, are optional. > As a wizard, all steps must give you an option to move forward in the process > of building an image. If we don't provide a 'Build' option in the Recipes > screen, we are forcing people to go back in order to move forward. If we can > build an image from the Image configuration screen, why can't we build an image > from the Recipes screen? There are two reasons here: 1) If people step into the recipe screen and do customization, they must walk through the "two steps (select recipes and select packages)", otherwise, what they change in the recipe screen doesn't take effect to his final image. 2) It will confuse users if we support build image in recipe screen. People selected several recipes and they DO think these recipes will be installed into the final image, however they aren't. > > If, because the way poky works, it doesn't make sense to have a Build image > action in the Recipes screen, we should have implemented the Recipes step as a > dialog (like the Layers) and not as a screen in the primary Hob window. Which > brings us full circle to the initial designs. If people are doing customization, I think it is better that we still provide the "Build Packages" button in recipe selection page. Otherwise, people need to go back to the main screen and then click "Build Packages" button. > > I think we agreed it is reasonable to assume the vast majority of Hob users > will select a base image as the starting point. We should be optimising the > design for those people, and not for the minority who, while using Hob, will > decide to create their own image. If this is an unsolvable issue, we should > consider eliminating the 'create your own image' option for 1.2 and implement > it in a future version, so that we have time to think about it and come up with > a good, solid solution. People can also customize recipes/packages even they have selected a base image. In that case, they DO need to walk through the full "two step" to make their customization take effect in their final image, but not just click "Build Image" button in recipe selection page. Therefore it doesn't only matter with "Create your own image". Hi Dongxiao, Thanks for the explanation. 1) If people step into the recipe screen and do customization, they must walk through the "two steps (select recipes and select packages)", otherwise, what they change in the recipe screen doesn't take effect to his final image. 2) It will confuse users if we support build image in recipe screen. People selected several recipes and they DO think these recipes will be installed into the final image, however they aren't. I think I understand what the problem is now: I was not aware of the above. From the beginning I assumed Hob would allow you to customise your recipes and then build the final image including your customisations without forcing you to go through the 'build packages' step, mainly because this seemed to me the behaviour of Hob 1.1 (although people were selecting packages there, not recipes). The way I saw this working was that the 'build image' option in the recipes screen would run the 'build packages' step in the background (i.e. without telling the user), and then proceed to build the image with whatever packages are included by default with the selected recipes. It would be exactly the same as if users did 'build packages' and then, without changing anything in the packages screen, did 'build image'. Is there anyway this could be done? The advantage for users would be the ability to skip the package selection process if they are not interested in it (I can just add the recipes I need to the base image and then build overnight because I don't need to worry about the select packages stage). Belen Assigning to Dongxiao as he is leading this discussion. Customization is based on packages instead of recipes. So far we can't skip "build packages" step if no base image is specified. That is also reflected in our first design at the beginning of v1.2 planning in Nov last year. Sorry, Shane: I am not following. I am not suggesting we skip 'Build packages'. What I am suggesting is that we run it without telling the user if they select 'Build image' in the Recipes screen. The way I understand it, this would be pretty similar to the 'Build image' option in the Image configuration screen. This option was there from my first design, so I don't understand why it hasn't been brought up until now. I do not agree with the 'won't fix' status. I suggest we move the target milestone to 1.3 and discuss possible solutions. High bugs by definition would block release. I'm making this a medium major to be addressed in the 1.3 timeframe. Adjusting bug status accordingly. I understand my viewpoint is being requested on this issue, I don't have the background to make a comment now but please involve me in the discussion in the 1.3 timeframe. Happy with that. Thanks guys Belen Changing to medium enhancement and assign as P1 to get it resolved since we're officially in 1.3 M1 (In reply to comment #8) > Hi Dongxiao, Thanks for the explanation. 1) If people step into the recipe > screen and do customization, they must walk through the "two steps (select > recipes and select packages)", otherwise, what they change in the recipe > screen doesn't take effect to his final image. 2) It will confuse users if > we support build image in recipe screen. People selected several recipes and > they DO think these recipes will be installed into the final image, however > they aren't. I think I understand what the problem is now: I was not aware > of the above. From the beginning I assumed Hob would allow you to customise > your recipes and then build the final image including your customisations > without forcing you to go through the 'build packages' step, mainly because > this seemed to me the behaviour of Hob 1.1 (although people were selecting > packages there, not recipes). Yes, in the new Hob, "build packages" and "build images" are totally different. The first one means "Generate packages from recipes". The second one means "Generate image from packages". We CANNOT directly "generate image from recipe". The way I saw this working was that the > 'build image' option in the recipes screen would run the 'build packages' > step in the background (i.e. without telling the user), and then proceed to > build the image with whatever packages are included by default with the > selected recipes. It would be exactly the same as if users did 'build > packages' and then, without changing anything in the packages screen, did > 'build image'. Is there anyway this could be done? No, if we add "build image" button in the recipe selection page, actually the behavior of that button has nothing related with the recipes. Neither it will do "build packages" in the background, nor it will reflect any customizations on recipes into the final image. Keep in mind that what matters to the final image are packages but not recipes. The advantage for users > would be the ability to skip the package selection process if they are not > interested in it (I can just add the recipes I need to the base image and > then build overnight because I don't need to worry about the select packages > stage). Belen (In reply to comment #8) Repost the comment due to format issue. > Hi Dongxiao, > Thanks for the explanation. > 1) If people step into the recipe > screen and do customization, they must walk > through the "two steps (select > recipes and select packages)", otherwise, what > they change in the recipe > screen doesn't take effect to his final image. > > 2) It will confuse users if > we support build image in recipe screen. People > selected several recipes and > they DO think these recipes will be installed into > the final image, however > they aren't. > > I think I understand what the problem is now: I was not aware > of the above. From the beginning I assumed Hob would allow you to customise > your recipes and then build the final image including your customisations > without forcing you to go through the 'build packages' step, mainly because > this seemed to me the behaviour of Hob 1.1 (although people were selecting > packages there, not recipes). Yes, in the new Hob, "build packages" and "build images" are totally different. The first one means "Generate packages from recipes". The second one means "Generate image from packages". We CANNOT directly "generate image from recipe". > > The way I saw this working was that the > 'build image' option in the recipes screen would run the 'build packages' > step in the background (i.e. without telling the user), and then proceed to > build the image with whatever packages are included by default with the > selected recipes. It would be exactly the same as if users did 'build > packages' and then, without changing anything in the packages screen, did > 'build image'. Is there anyway this could be done? > No, if we add "build image" button in the recipe selection page, actually the behavior of that button has nothing related with the recipes. Neither it will do "build packages" in the background, nor it will reflect any customizations on recipes into the final image. Keep in mind that what matters to the final image are packages but not recipes. > The advantage for users > would be the ability to skip the package selection process if they are not > interested in it (I can just add the recipes I need to the base image and > then build overnight because I don't need to worry about the select packages > stage). > > Belen Right, it looks like the design might be misleading and does not represent what Hob is actually doing. Could you please answer a few questions for me, so that I can understand Hob's behaviour a bit better? 1. When I select a base image and then click the 'View recipes' button, what are the recipes in the 'included' tab? Are they the recipes that must be built in order to provide the packages required by the base image? How is that list of 'included recipes' created? 2. When I select a base image, click the 'View packages' button, and in the dialog I select 'Build packages', which packages are being built? Are they the packages required by the base image? 3. When I select a base image, click the 'View packages' button, and in the dialog I select 'View packages', what am I actually looking at in the 'Included' tab of the Packages screen? Are those just the list of built packages in my Build directory and therefore have no relation to the base image I have selected? 4. If I select a base image, click 'View recipes', make some changes to the content of the 'Included' tab, then click 'Back to image configuration', then select 'Build packages', what am I building? Am I building the packages for the recipes in the 'Included' tab, i.e. my changes? Or am I building the packages required by the base image (i.e. the changes I made in the Recipes screen are ignored)? 5. If I select a base image, click 'View recipes', make some changes to the content of the 'Included' tab, then click 'Back to image configuration', then select 'Build image', what am I building? Am I building the base image (i.e. the changes I've made in the Recipes screen are ignored)? 6. If I select a base image, click 'Build packages', make some changes to the content of the 'Included' tab in the Packages screen, then click 'Back to image configuration', then I select 'Build image', what am I building? Am I building an image from the packages I selected in the 'Included' tab of the Packages screen? Or am I building the packages required by the selected base image (i.e. the changes I've made in the Packages screen are ignored)? Sorry if I am asking things that are obvious to you, but I really need to understand how Hob is currently working. Thanks Belen (In reply to comment #17) > Right, it looks like the design might be misleading and does not represent > what Hob is actually doing. Could you please answer a few questions for me, > so that I can understand Hob's behaviour a bit better? > 1. When I select a > base image and then click the 'View recipes' button, what are the recipes in > the 'included' tab? Are they the recipes that must be built in order to > provide the packages required by the base image? How is that list of > 'included recipes' created? The 'included recipes' are all build DEPENDS of the selected image. These recipes will create packages that composes the final image. But one important point is, a certain recipe may create dozens of packages, and only a few of them are finally assempled into the final image. Therefore we are not able to know the final image content by selecting/de-selecting recipes. > 2. When I select a base image, click the 'View > packages' button, and in the dialog I select 'Build packages', which > packages are being built? Actually we are building the "build DEPENDS" recipes of the selected image, and it will generate couples of packages. SOME of them will be installed into the final image. > Are they the packages required by the base image? Not all the packages will be installed. Only part of them. > 3. When I select a base image, click the 'View packages' button, and in the > dialog I select 'View packages', what am I actually looking at in the > 'Included' tab of the Packages screen? > Are those just the list of built > packages in my Build directory and therefore have no relation to the base > image I have selected? Yes, these packages are the "alread-built" packages in the build directory. The package itself doesn't have relationship with the selected image. However whether the package is selected or not will be determined by the "selected image". 4. If I select a base image, click 'View recipes', > make some changes to the content of the 'Included' tab, then click 'Back to > image configuration', then select 'Build packages', what am I building? Am I > building the packages for the recipes in the 'Included' tab, i.e. my > changes? > Or am I building the packages required by the base image (i.e. the > changes I made in the Recipes screen are ignored)? This includes your change. 5. If I select a base > image, click 'View recipes', make some changes to the content of the > 'Included' tab, then click 'Back to image configuration', then select 'Build > image', what am I building? Am I building the base image (i.e. the changes > I've made in the Recipes screen are ignored)? If the "Build image" button in image configuration page (we call it "Just bake" previously) is clicked, we are just building the "selected image", and will ignore your changes to recipe screen. 6. If I select a base image, > click 'Build packages', make some changes to the content of the 'Included' > tab in the Packages screen, then click 'Back to image configuration', then I > select 'Build image', what am I building? Am I building an image from the > packages I selected in the 'Included' tab of the Packages screen? Or am I > building the packages required by the selected base image (i.e. the changes > I've made in the Packages screen are ignored)? Like the above, we just building the "selected image" and will ignore your changes to recipe screen. > Sorry if I am asking things > that are obvious to you, but I really need to understand how Hob is > currently working. > Thanks > Belen Thanks, Dongxiao. This really helps. Just one more question about your response to point 2: > 2. When I select a base image, click the 'View > packages' button, and in the dialog I select 'Build packages', which > packages are being built? > Actually we are building the "build DEPENDS" recipes of the selected image, and > it will generate couples of packages. SOME of them will be installed into the > final image. Does this mean that 'Build packages' does the same thing as selecting the Packages button and then choosing 'Build packages' in the dialog? Belen (In reply to comment #19) > Thanks, Dongxiao. This really helps. Just one more question about your > response to point 2: > 2. When I select a base image, click the 'View > > packages' button, and in the dialog I select 'Build packages', which > > packages are being built? > Actually we are building the "build DEPENDS" > recipes of the selected image, and > it will generate couples of packages. > SOME of them will be installed into the > final image. > Does this mean that > 'Build packages' does the same thing as selecting the Packages button and > then choosing 'Build packages' in the dialog? Yes, The two "Build packages" button perform the same functionality. Dongxiao > Belen Thanks, Dongxiao. I'll have a think about your answers and come back to you with some design suggestions. Belen Hi Dongxiao, I've spent some time trying to work out what would be the best way of fixing this. I think there is no point in changing how Hob works. Instead, we should adapt the interface to clearly reflect what Hob is doing. I've attached 2 documents that explain what my suggestions are: bug 2165 - customise image flow (notes).pdf This is the document you should look at first: it explains my suggested changes to ensure the interface reflects what Hob is doing. bug 2165 - customise image flow.pdf This is just a set of wireframes showing the different screens mentioned in the previous document. Let me know what you think. Belen Created attachment 583 [details] bug 2165 - customise image flow (notes).pdf Created attachment 584 [details] bug 2165 - customise image flow.pdf Created attachment 590 [details] bug 2165 - customise image flow (notes) Hi Dongxiao, I made a change to the page 5 of the document bug 2165 - customise image flow (notes).pdf Please use this version: https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/attachment.cgi?id=590 Sorry: I should have overwritten the old one. Belen Hi Dongxiao and Shane, Any thoughts on the proposed designs in https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/attachment.cgi?id=590 Belen Hi Shane and Dongxiao, I know this bug is scheduled for M3, but it affects the design work for a couple of other bugs that I'd like to get done as soon as possible (2345 and 2162). When you have some time, would you mind reviewing the design document https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/attachment.cgi?id=590 and let me know if you are happy to implement it? Thanks Belen Sorry Belen. Here are my comments. Page 1, if you select 'Build image' any changes made in the 'Recipes' screen will be ignored and you will just build the selected base image. [Shane]: It is not the case. It will build "create your own" image, I think. Page 2 - 5. [Shane]: I admit it makes things clearer than before, for the implementation, ditto. We shouldn't have struggled in 1.2 a lot:-) But I remember Richard provided his 4 scenarios before. > a) Build a customised image based on packages already built > (unavailable on a fresh build) > b) Build an image directly with no customisation <select image> > (this will skip the recipes selection dialog and the packages > selection) > c) Build an image directly but with customisation <select image> > (this will skip the recipes selection dialog) > d) Allow selection of recipes to build (proceeds to existing dialog) The 2 paths only cover 3 of them. How do we cover usage case a)? My suggestion would be to drop it. Can you persuade Richard? (In reply to comment #28) > Hi Shane and Dongxiao, I know this bug is scheduled for M3, but it affects > the design work for a couple of other bugs that I'd like to get done as soon > as possible (2345 and 2162). When you have some time, would you mind > reviewing the design document > https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/attachment.cgi?id=590 and let me know if > you are happy to implement it? Thanks Belen Hi Shane, Thanks for coming back to me. About the use case a), I'll clarify with Richard what was exactly about and see if we can accommodate it easily or if it's better to drop it. About the page 1 content, I asked Dongxiao about it. This is what I wrote: "5. If I select a base image, click 'View recipes', make some changes to the content of the 'Included' tab, then click 'Back to image configuration', then select 'Build image', what am I building? Am I building the base image (i.e. the changes I've made in the Recipes screen are ignored)?" And this is Dongxiao's reply: "If the "Build image" button in image configuration page (we call it "Just bake" previously) is clicked, we are just building the "selected image", and will ignore your changes to recipe screen." I don't think it matters at this point, although the fact we are having this conversation is probably a sign that the interface is not clear and needs changing :) I am still working on a couple of cases: for example, what happens when you select 'build-appliance-image' (which probably you cannot customise) and what happens when you select 'Create your own image' (which you must customise). I'll update the design document when I am done with those. Cheers Belen (In reply to comment #29) > Sorry Belen. Here are my comments. > > Page 1, if you select 'Build image' any changes made in the 'Recipes' > screen will be ignored and you will just build the selected base > image. > > [Shane]: It is not the case. It will build "create your own" image, I think. > > Page 2 - 5. > [Shane]: I admit it makes things clearer than before, for the > implementation, ditto. We shouldn't have struggled in 1.2 a lot:-) But I > remember Richard provided his 4 scenarios before. > > > a) Build a customised image based on packages already built > > (unavailable on a fresh build) > > b) Build an image directly with no customisation <select image> > > (this will skip the recipes selection dialog and the packages > > selection) > > c) Build an image directly but with customisation <select image> > > (this will skip the recipes selection dialog) > > d) Allow selection of recipes to build (proceeds to existing dialog) > > The 2 paths only cover 3 of them. How do we cover usage case a)? My > suggestion would be to drop it. Can you persuade Richard? > > > (In reply to comment #28) > > Hi Shane and Dongxiao, > > I know this bug is scheduled for M3, but it affects > > the design work for a couple of other bugs that I'd like to get done as soon > > as possible (2345 and 2162). When you have some time, would you mind > > reviewing the design document > > https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/attachment.cgi?id=590 > > and let me know if > > you are happy to implement it? > > Thanks > > Belen Created attachment 611 [details] bug 2165 - customise image flow (notes) I've run the new design as shown in https://bugzilla.yoctoproject.org/attachment.cgi?id=611 past Richard P and he is happy to go ahead. Cheers Belen (In reply to comment #31) > Created attachment 611 [details] > bug 2165 - customise image flow (notes) *** Bug 2625 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. *** Hello Belen, Richard, Shane, Dongxiao, I have analyzed the new Hob workflow as proposed by Belen. In my opinion, Belen's proposal will make Hob have a more of a "wizard"-oriented interface. In my opinion, that should be a primary objective for Hob, as anyone having enough knowledge about YP/poky will resort to CLI, which is more powerfull. Belen's design/workflow change proposal seems to have logical choices and logical workflow. However, from a implementation stand-point, is not an easy task. After implementation is complete, there is a chance of adding new workflow/inconsistency bugs, but those should not be too hard to iron out. Initial/At a glance tasks for Hob's workflow change/improvement: 1. Change Hob's start interface (initial screen); remove View recipes/packages section; change Build packages into Edit image. 2. Reuse Recipes and Packages screens and aggreagate them into a 2-step wizard. 3. Handle the "Create your own image" special case. Add the necessary logic. Customize accordingly "Edit recipes" screen. Also, shouldn't this use case also include the "Edit packages" screen into the wizard? Belen, Richard, what do you think? Belen, are the above steps correct? I am not sure if these are also complete, but the needed tasks will refine themselves during the actual implementation. Hi Cristian,
Your list seems correct. You are right that "Create your own image" case should include the "Edit packages" step. I just put a note in the document because, after the "Edit recipes" screen, this case should behave exactly like case 2 ("Customise your base image"). On page 6 of the document it says:
"Step 3 onwards
After the 'Recipes' screen, the process continues in exactly
the same way as Flow 2: Customise your base image"
I agree that probably we'll find gaps in the design document during implementation. Just let me know and we'll deal with them as they come up. Any questions you have, give me a shout.
Thanks!
Belen
(In reply to comment #35)
> Initial/At a glance tasks for Hob's workflow change/improvement:
>
> 1. Change Hob's start interface (initial screen); remove View
> recipes/packages section; change Build packages into Edit image.
>
> 2. Reuse Recipes and Packages screens and aggreagate them into a 2-step
> wizard.
>
> 3. Handle the "Create your own image" special case. Add the necessary logic.
> Customize accordingly "Edit recipes" screen.
> Also, shouldn't this use case also include the "Edit packages" screen into
> the wizard? Belen, Richard, what do you think?
>
> Belen, are the above steps correct?
> I am not sure if these are also complete, but the needed tasks will refine
> themselves during the actual implementation.
Status update Work completed: 80%. New contextual Cancel buttons have not been implemented. Wizard-like reorganization close to completion (implemented). Hob context awareness implemented. ETA: 2012-08-06 EOD. QA process: It will still need bug-testing for corner cases. Improvements merged. I've played with the latest hob and with this change, there's no way for my to add package to an existing image. My test steps is as follow: 1. buit core-image-minimal with default settings 2. try to add powertop to core-image-minimal. I tried the wizard of 'edit image", click on all-recipes tab and there I do see powertop but there's no option for my to add/select it, and "Build Packages" button has no effect of building the supporting packages for it as well. This is a big setback from prior hob functionality wise, which maybe confusing but at least user can easily add things to an existing image. Hopefully, it's an error on my end that I'm just missing something seems somehow the include column is missing from the all receip window Hi Jessica, This is definitely a bug, and I don't think is necessarily related to the changes in the building flow. I think we should return this bug to 'verified' and open a critical bug about this (I agree with you that this is a big problem, and I don't think we can release Hob without fixing it). Let me know if you agree and I'll open the bug. Cheers Belen (In reply to comment #41) > seems somehow the include column is missing from the all receip window Reassigned to Jessica to close this bug since the original problem to longer repro, and a new bug should be open to track the workflow issue. Today, I tried against latest master and the problem's gone. So I'm closing this bug and will open a new one if it's seen again. Verified in commit: e5c3513ca8abb21eb5e9b8c19d1b9199b14ae07c. |
Created attachment 400 [details] Buttons for the Recipes screen At present the button 'Build image' is no longer available. Also the button 'back to image configuration' is missing the arrows (this is also true in the 'Package' screen.